We had a situation in the room this week where there was a miscount or a miscommunication between a player and the dealer regarding an all-in bet and call.
What transpired:
Player in the 3 seat raised, player in the 7 seat declares All-In. The player in the 3 seat asked for a count or how much more and was given the wrong number after the dealer counted out the chips. Player in 3 announces CALL and the cards were flipped. As the dealer prepared to pull in the pot he announced the total all-in and the Player in the 3 seat said that that was not what was given to him and the floor was called.
What I saw when I approached the Table:
when I looked at the table I saw the Player in the 3 seat had a stack of chips out in front of him and the Player in the 7 Seat had a all-in button in front of him and his chips neatly counted out (In the traditional stacks - this will come into play later) and both players cards were tabled.
My Ruling:
Player in the 3 seat could have forfeited the chips he put into the pot and not matched the correct amount (This was based off of TDA Rule 1 which states “Best interest of the game and fairness”) or the player in the 3 seat could if he wanted to see the board run out would have to match the actual chip count from Player in the 7 seat.
This is based off of TDA Rule 49, which states:
POKER IS A GAME OF ALERT, CONTINUOUS OBSERVATION. IT IS THE CALLERS RESPONSIBILITY TO DETERMINE THE CORRECT AMOUNT OF AN OPPONENT’S BET BEFORE CALLING, REGARDLESS OF WHAT IS STATED BY OTHERS. IF A CALLER REQUESTS A COUNT BUT RECEIVES INCORRECT INFORMATION FROM A DEALER OR PLAYER, THEN PUSHES OUT THAT AMOUNT OR DECLARES CALL, THE CALLER HAS ACCEPTED THE FULL CORRECT ACTION AND IS SUBJECT TO THE CORRECT WAGER OR ALL-IN MOUNT.
My thought process:
First I hate making rulings like this because it’s a lose lose situation for me. Someone is always going to be upset. The ruling was pretty easy based on the information I received and the context of rule 49, and I remember a situation just like this in the WSOP a few years ago that stuck in my mind. The dealer having the all-in players neatly counted out in the proper way also helped a lot. The chips were visible and easily counted by any player at the table. The miscommunication was unfortunate and we never like to see a player upset but that was the ruling by the floor.
Kyle went into the tournament ranked 42nd with most of his cashes coming in our DoorBuster tournaments. He outlasted a great stacked field to take down the honor and the Player of the Year Trophy. As part of his prize package he will be cruising on the Ante Up Poker Cruise in October with his Main Event included.
The 2024 Player of the Year is starting..... Don't miss your chance to join Kyle as a PPC Champion.
The Play Poker Chicago Player of there Year Final Table consisted of:
As a player, there is something to be said for having a massive pile of chips in front of you…. It makes you feel good about yourself. You can use them to intimidate other players, to build a massive wall to hide your cards from nosy neighbors or practice your architectural skills and build a cool castle. But……..
As a floor person I HATE BIG PILES OF CHIPS!!!!! Every time we come around to color up chips, it’s a battle with someone, “Please don’t color these up…… I like a big stack” There are several reasons we color up chips, the main one, is it makes it easier on the dealers. I just saw a story about the WSOP (World Series Of Poker not OUR Winter Series Of Poker ;-) Paradise event where poker pro Daniel Neilson lost 10,000,000 in chips because of a dealer counting error. This may have cost him a lot of real money.
Counting mistakes are one of the main reason we like less chips on the table. Believe it or not dealers are human and make mistakes (I know shocking) but, in reality it's easy to make a counting mistake when you have six people trying to do your job and shouting out random numbers at you. The fewer chips on the table the better the chance to get the counts right. Also, remember, per the TDA rules if the dealer makes an error and you “Call” a all-in and the error is discovered before the chips are pushed you have to call the correct amount, even if you were told a different number by the dealer - The player has a responsibility to observe the counting and to make sure it is correct.
Less chips on the table also speeds up the game. Hands per hour increases with less chips on the table and that’s good for the players. There are less delays after you scoop a big pot and are first to act - you know the cards sit there until you finish stacking. It’s the worst feeling to be sitting on a short stack, watching the blind timer tick away and have delays because of having so may chips on the table. Less chips equals more hands.
In closing I know players want a stack to the ceiling…. but a lot of chips on the table is one of the things I hate about poker.
When I started Play Poker Chicago I wanted to focus on working with as many veterans organizations as we could. Veterans and active duty military members hold a special place in my heart. My uncle and cousin served in the Marines, and I have seen their dedication to this wonderful country and I’m so proud of them and their service. We all owe the brave men and women who have served and are currently serving a big thank you.
We are always looking for new ideas to bring something different to Play Poker Chicago and our players. One night when I was working on our Summer Series and listening to the Ante Up podcast (If you haven’t checked them out you should) I thought why don’t we run a special event for our military players and as I often do I couldn’t stop a one event……. I thought we need something bigger…. and The Veterans Poker Tour was born.
The Veterans Poker Tour will consist of 11 events, one a month between July and May of each year, and conclude with the VPT Main Event every June. Tour events will be hosted and help support our VFW’s and American Legion partners. You must be a veteran or active duty military member to play in these events. The events will feature 20 minute levels and a very player friendly blind structure. Buy-in’s are $60.00 for 10,000 starting chips, plus a $20.00 optional table add-on for an additional 10,000 chips and players will have one last chance to add 10,000 chips to their stack for a $20.00 first break last chance add-on. If you pre-register on the website you’ll also get a 1,000 bonus chip. Each player is only allowed one rebuy per event.
I’m very proud of the Veterans Poker Tour and if you are a Vet or active duty military member or know someone that is, please spread the word about the first event this Saturday July 15th at Cantigny Post VFW in Joliet located at 826 Horseshoe Drive. The full tour schedule can be found on our website at: https://www.playpokerchicago.com/vpt
The TDA (Tournament Directors Association) meets every 2 years in Las Vegas at the WSOP to update and tweak the rules that most tournaments are run by, including Play Poker Chicago events.
We had a situation come up in the room about a premature turn card coming out in a hand. Our floor person advised the dealer to leave the turn burn card out and to reshuffle the stub without putting the river card out face down, and a player questioned it. It was explained that it was one of the revised “Recommended Procedures” put in place at the 2022 TDA meeting.
Here is the new rule on prematurely dealt cards from the 2022 TDA rule book.
RP-5. Prematurely Dealt Cards
Board and burn cards are sometimes dealt prematurely, before action on the preceding round is finished. The general procedures for these situations are:
A: Premature flop, leave the flop burn card as the burn. Return the premature board cards to the deck stub and reshuffle the entire stub. Re-deal the flop (without another burn) from the newly shuffled stub.
B: A premature turn card: leave the turn burn card as the burn. Return the premature turn card to the deck stub and reshuffle the entire stub. Re-deal the turn (without another burn) from the newly shuffled stub
C: A premature river card: leave the river burn card as the burn. Return the premature river card to the deck stub and reshuffle the entire stub. Re-deal the river (without another burn) from the newly shuffled stub
From time to time we will post updated rules and procedures on the Facebook page, to help keep you up-to-date on rule changes and to clarify some of the issues we had at an event.
If you have any rule questions, pleas post them and we will answer them in future post.
How do you quantify the Loss of Doyle “Texas Dolly” Brunson?
His name is synonymous with Texas Hold Em. I’m a Moneymaker era player, I played a bit before that, but that WSOP and his run along with the birth of online apps; that’s when I was hooked. So when I started taking the game seriously, I wanted to read a book and of course everyone said “Super System” is the bible. It was a great read but even more so it was my introduction to a legend of the game, Doyle Brunson.
As many of you that got into the game at that time, I soaked it up. Watching every poker show out there, and a lot of them talked about Doyle. He was a living legend, and his stories….. and the stories about him, you had to fall in love with him as a player. Playing at a level that I could only dream of in his late 70’s, putting the kids to shame. He was and will always be the face I think of when I think of Texas Hold’ em.
With most things I do, I like to learn a bit about the history, it gives me a sense of understanding. One of the things I did on my first trip to Las Vegas after I became a “Poker Player” was visit Binion’s poker room, because I wanted to soak up the history. Looking at the photos, touching the autographed table top on the wall, sitting in a chair at a poker table that Doyle himself might have sat in (oh the chairs looked like they were never changed…. ever…. so I know a lot of famous butts sat there ;-) It was a thrill that made me forget busting out of the tournament and losing a bunch of cash. It was worth it, I played where Texas Dolly played.
On his blog when he retired from tournament play he posted ”Don’t cry because it’s over, smile because it happened” and on this trying day for the poker world. I’m not going to cry because we lost a legend of the game, I’m going to celebrate because HE happened.
I want to thank you Doyle for helping to introduce me to the game I now love. But losing you, that’s one of the things I hate about poker.
As I sit at my desk on this second day of the new year and ponder my life choices, I’m content. Took a while to get there but yeah, content - that’s a ok way to start, right?
Starting Play Poker Chicago has been a long process and with covid, and other things it’s taken longer to get rolling that I wanted. But here we are January 2023 and I’m content. We are small but growing every week. We are proud to announce the we will be operating every Saturday in 2023 and expanding to two days per week in the fall. There may be a few dates open put we will be more consistent that ever.
We know that we are the babies, the new kid that is kick around…… but, we are also the scrappy underdog that you need to watch out for.
I had a dream when I started the company. I wanted to help charities raise some money for good causes and I wanted a better option for the players that spend their money at poker charity events. I wanted to be a place where the players are treated the right way. We have a lot of innovations that we are proud of:
- Better Tournament Structures
- Player Cards - To speed Up Check-in
- Better Tournament Clocks
- 9 Handed Play in all Tournaments
- Player of the Year Standings
After we announced some of the above our competition changed up to match us in a lot of cases. So we must be doing something right. We will continue to strive to be the best.
For those that have been in our room THANK YOU we would not be here without you and your support. But, we want to grow up and continue to improve and we will strive to be your “Go To” poker room so if you have any suggestions please seek me out of drop me a email at kevin@playpokerchicago.com
And if you tried us and thought we were too small or if you haven’t gave us a shot yet. This is my appeal to you……. Please visit us and help us grow into the best room in the Chicagoland area. The pieces are here the only thing missing is YOU!
2023 is going to be BIG for Play Poker Chicago - Don’t miss out!
They have all been lying to us. Size does matter, no matter what they say! Stack size that is ;-)
Tournament poker is the ultimate test. Everyone starts with the same stack size and you see who has the biggest at the end. But, average stack size is so important when you are maneuvering through a tournament and many charity tournament players are totally in the dark about the number of chips in play, number of players/rebuys and most importantly the average chip stack of the remaining players. In most cases it’s not their fault. It’s the poker rooms fault. We’ll get back to that in a bit, but first a story….
I was playing over the weekend as we were testing out our new poker room management system and noticed a few friends getting way below the average stack size of the remaining players in our tournament. They were playing their style and not adjusting to the rising average stack size of the players around them. It killed their chances of winning because before they realized they were getting short, it was too late. They were picked off one by one.
I was paying very close attention to the average stack size in the room, as players were eliminated. I adjusted my bet sizing and pushed the action because of it a few times where I may have normally sat back. There were also times I laid down a hand or two that I may have pushed with if I was below average. Knowing what the average stack size in the room at any given time made me a better player.
Most charity room players don’t have this useful information. Why?
Their poker room is letting them down. Either because the clocks they use are very basic and don’t provide the information. Or even worse, their clocks can provide the information, but they are not kept up to date because the management is lazy. They think you’ll just some back again and again even though they are not putting forth the effort to earn your repeat visits to their room.
We want you in our room! Play Poker Chicago has invested in a great poker room management system, it’s casino quality, for you our valued players. Our clocks will show the total players that have registered along with the total number of rebuys, total chips in play and most importantly the average chip stack of the remaining players. We want you to have all the information available to help make you a better player.
Oh, and we don’t hide the prize pool. It’s right on the tournament clock as players register, rebuy or add-on the prize pool is updated in real time for you to see. The payouts will also be posted on the clock, after registration closes.
In closing, come out and give us a try, you won’t regret it. We are working hard to building a special room for you, our valued players. As we say, Play Poker Chicago was built by players for players!
We’ve all been there, at a final table and the talk of a deal comes up to pay the bubble or two extra players or whatever. Sometimes you want to do it. Sometimes you don’t, but either way there is always peer pressure to agree to the deal. If you don’t agree, you’re labeled “That Guy” and I know of a few situations where the label has followed a player from tournament to tournament. “That Guy” is always targeted, unfairly, for the rest of the final table as well and having to deal with the crowd erupting into cheers when he’s eliminated - and I think it’s wrong.
I was watching the TDA (Tournament Directors Association) Summit from Vegas during the WSOP and Linda Johnson (who I have a crush on), the Queen of TD’s had a great idea - which PPC is now putting in place. DEAL or NO DEAL cards.
The way it works is at the final table all players will be given 2 cards, one that says DEAL and one that says NO DEAL. If there is talk of a deal, all players will in private, select a card and toss it into the middle of the table and will discard the other card into a muck pile. If all cards say DEAL the deal is agreed upon and it’s in place but if one card is NO DEAL, talks regarding that deal are done and play continues as before.
The dealers will be instructed to mix up the cards so that no one knows who put what card in. Everything is anonymous and there is no peer pressure or bullying of any player to make a deal that they do not want to make. Cards will be turned over one at a time. If there is a NO DEAL card shown, all of the remaining cards will be mucked. This way, no one will know if there was one person or more that did not want the deal - all it takes is one to reject the deal.
Players are free to offer a deal at any time to be voted on. But, we suggest that once a deal is rejected another one should not be offered until a player is knocked out, to not slow down the game.
I think this is a great way to solve one of the things I hate about poker!
At first I hated the thought of it. Then I played a turbo tournament with a player that took forever on every hand. I didn’t want to be “that guy” that called a clock at a friendly local charity tournament but OMG lets move, you have 4 5 suited with 5 over cards on the board….. FOLD it’s not rocket science!
The benefits of a shot clock are obvious. When players make their decisions faster, the table is able to see more hands and as a result, the structure of the tournament improves. It also self balances the hands per table. In a tournament if one table has three slow players and one table has all quick decision making players one of the tables will see far more hands on each level. The shot clock will balance this out. Short stacks can afford to breathe a little easier and be more patient. Players will no longer be forced to call the clock on their opponents and stalling, especially close to the money bubble, will be minimal.
The downside of a shot clock is the logistics involved with implementing them into the game. Dealers will need to be trained to handle the additional job responsibilities. Players may also be intimidated by the new rules and avoid playing live poker as a result. But, rest assured it will be good for you and the game.
You’ve seen it used on TV and I think it’s time to do a test run at the local level and as a innovator Play Poker Chicago will be the first to give it a test run. We will use it in our Super Mega Stack tournament on June 5th.
Each player will start the tournament with ten 30 second time extension cards, and two 2-minute pause cards. We will see how it plays out and get the response of the players in the tournament and make tweaks to the system going forward.
Pre-registration for the June 5th $200.00 Super Mega Monster Tournament to be held at the American Legion (located at 11001 South Depot Street, Worth, 60482) is now open, be the first to try out the Poker Shot Clock. Register here: https://www.playpokerchicago.com/store/
